Alterations and tailoring, page 4

It is the single most repeated tip here: smoothing shapewear removes the shadows the camera picks up and lets the dress slide over the body, and several people say it does as much for a tight hip as the alteration will.

Yes, and the bride who asked is having detachable sleeves made in the matching champagne colour rather than the silver ones she tried on. Opinion here is split on whether the dress needs them at all.

Yes, and several brides called it one of the cheaper alterations. Taking out layers changes the quinceanera silhouette, but the hem usually has to be shortened afterwards because the skirt drops.

Experiences split sharply on the stylist. One bride was measured properly and every gown fit; others got an ordinary fitting room with no pedestal, mirror or lighting, a sample two sizes too big, or three botched orders that ended in a refund.

Lighting, angle, an unsteamed sample and a cardstock-stiffened hem all made one gown read as crunchy and low quality in the bride's own phone pictures, while the other shop had a stool, good light and a full-length mirror.

the bride who asked budgeted 500 to 1,000; brides called that optimistic and put a fitted or detailed gown nearer 1,500 to 2,000 depending on the city and the work involved.

Sometimes but not reliably. One friend got a 5,000 dollar gown copied for 3,000, and a Virginia seamstress quoted 2,000 plus materials, but others warn custom often costs more unless you underpay the maker.

Overwhelmingly yes here. Named shops that worked: HoopieVeil (100, custom, two weeks), Viethungstore (168 floor-length embroidered), noononthemoon (125), plus a Ukrainian designer at 120. Buyers advise picking a shop with strong reviews.

A boutique owner told a shopper that most shops buy veils on Amazon and resell them at a markup, and that he refuses to sell veils because he finds the practice shady - he told her to buy her own on Amazon, which she did.

Yes - a bride who considered this said any tailor can do it and will advise on the right fabric; she only dropped the plan because she could not find a plain mantilla-style veil to start from. Estimates for a tailor-made version came in under 300.

Not long. Brides here reported taking it off after the ceremony and photos - one wore hers about 30 minutes total, and long veils drag through leaves, grass and dirt while you are still in them.

Yes for stock and sizing: one bride got a tagged designer gown for $600, and others rate it for having measurements in most listings. Ask every question first - the listed wearer height still left one bride needing a hem.

Yes - search white dresses and filter to gowns, since there is no bridal section. brides found Maggie Sottero and Morilee gowns around $200 or less, and advise picking something that fits without alterations.

Brides for a Cause and local bridal consignment shops came up repeatedly on the west coast; one bride found a $300 gown needing minimal alterations, though sizes and choice are limited.

these accounts treat 1,800 as roughly today's salon average: a bridal-shop employee calls it the current typical gown price, and several brides paid 1,800 before alterations with no regrets. The pushback is about the asking bride's 1,000 budget and the pressured sale, not the number itself.

To keep the train and hem detailing intact the tailor often shortens from the waist, or removes lace appliques, hems, and hand-sews them back on. That labor is why a hem alone can run 300 to 600.

Possibly. One bride suggested ringing other stockists for their price on the same gown, since promotions and markups vary, while warning to pick a shop you trust for collection and alterations.

Every reply says yes. brides read the blush vintage gown as unmistakably bridal because of the fabric and silhouette, and two say they are pink-dress brides themselves.

Real bills here ran 120-150 for a simple hem or waist tweak, 360 for hem plus boning, 600-640 for a hem, bustle, straps and take-in package, 750 when several sizes came in, and about 1,200 for a seven-layer hem plus a size 20 to 12 reduction; one bridal shop's minimum quote was 1,200.

They need to see the dress on your body: layer count, beading, boning and how the construction sits all change the job, and a phone estimate would be a guess; some shops will still talk by call or text, and pricier ones charge for an in-person estimate.

Usually yes: bridal shops quoted 500-plus and 1,200 minimum where local tailors charged 120 and 640, and a men's-suit tailor did a lace dress for 150; the trade-off is checking the tailor has wedding-dress experience.

60 for steaming at the alterations shop and 150 for pressing at a dry cleaner.

Yes: weight loss meant changing cup size and shape on top of the hem and bustle, taking in several sizes cost 750 even in a cheap area, and a size 20 to 12 reduction contributed to a 1,200 bill; taking in one size is side seams but four sizes is a rebuild.

No: brides say sales staff promise the moon without understanding construction, shortening a boned bodice means rebuilding it, and removing crinoline layers from a ballgown was quoted at about 2,000 before any other work.

One bride says driving a couple hundred miles can pay off for an elaborate dress, but a DC-area bride who drove an hour out still got a 1,200 minimum; a Utah men's-suit tailor and an LA local tailor were the cheap wins.

One ballgown took three fittings for 640; a bride whose dress arrives in June for an October wedding is already collecting quotes, and another met several tailors and got quotes from 350 to 1,600 for the same dress.

Most who skipped one said no, including women married 47 and 53 years in a cotton dress and a home-made dress. The dissent came from women who let someone else talk them out of the dress they wanted: the regret here is about being overruled, not about the price tag.

Named by people who used them: StillWhite, Depop, eBay, Vinted, Facebook Marketplace, JJ's House, shopgoodwill.com and Revolve for a non-bridal white dress. Charity and Goodwill bridal sections were the cheapest route at roughly $100.

Yes, and it was the single most repeated fix here. A seamstress can pin the gown's own fabric where straps would sit so you can see the look before committing, and off-the-shoulder, lace or removable button-on straps are all normal requests at alterations.

The Milla Nova lace gown here was 2,700 dollars before alterations. The one-of-a-kind gown bought instead was 800 off the rack, one bride budgeted 5,000, and another paid 200 for a BHLDN clearance dress online.

Returns are rarely offered, but resale is normal: brides point to StillWhite and private secondhand sales, and one bride told her salon about her regret and got help from them. Expect to recover part of the price, not all of it.

The suggestions here are all alteration or accessory level: a heavily lace veil, lace gloves, added straps, a petticoat or sparkly underskirt for volume, a lined bodice if boning shows, buttons down the back, or a lace overlay in the same pattern as the bodice.

brides warn that heavy alterations are expensive and the result is never guaranteed, so a gown that already fits is treated as real value. Light work such as a bustle plus a veil was all the brides's 800 dollar gown needed.

Mixed. One bride bought her gown there happily but found it ran one to two sizes smaller than street size; another warns custom sizing is non-refundable and her bridesmaid dress hems arrived crooked.

A Toronto charity bridal shop where purchases fund cancer work; two brides bought there for 600 and just under 1000, and one returned her gown to them afterwards to be resold.

It was the top-voted answer. One bride found a well-made clearance gown for about 370, another got hers off the rack and stayed under 1000 including veil, shoes, hair comb and alterations, and a third bought a 99 sale dress that she later had preserved.

Yes. Macy's, Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom carry white formal gowns from labels like Mac Duggal and Adrianna Papell, usually 200 to 500, and one bride said Nordstrom does free alterations on what you buy there.

Tax, alterations, veil and cleaning. One bride was in budget until tax and extras added 2,000 she had not planned for; another was quoted 300-500 for professional cleaning after the wedding; a third spent 4,400 on dress plus veil before alterations even started.

Two brides here had that constraint and both say it cut their options sharply and pushed them over budget. Both ended up buying in a shop rather than online, one at Anthropologie for 3,500 and one at 2,000 on the second dress she tried.

Brides who spent £3,200, £4,500, £5k and even £9k all report no regret when the money was there without debt; but the discussion's typical spend is £600-1,500 plus £150-600 of alterations, and resale recovers well under half.

Wed2B gowns here cost £699-999 (the store's range runs roughly £600-1,000) with £200-270 of alterations on top; one bride advises avoiding the chain entirely.

Many did: Monsoon £110-300, Coast £80-100, Debenhams £89-100, BHS £36.60, Shein £52, Rixo £400, Needle and Thread £450; several needed no alterations at all.

It can be: £80 from a seamstress abroad, £450 made-to-measure from Nigerian or Vietnamese (Etsy) makers, under £600 for a non-traditional design, £1,700 bespoke with no alterations, up to £2,500 from a UK dressmaker.

Several did cheaply: a £15 Vinted dress with £20 of alterations, a £200 second dress to escape a tight corset, a Phase Eight sequin dress, or two Wed2B gowns for under £2k together.

The discussion overwhelmingly said no: stop browsing, stop retrying the dress, and spend the money on styling instead, because a replacement costs more than the bride had planned and leaves no time for alterations. The minority view was to trust your gut, with one bride saying she hated her dress and wished she had tried more, and another saying she swapped hers and has always wished she had not.

One UK bride paid about 40 pounds to have her sleeves tightened and called it the single change that made her love her dress. brides treated taking in or removing sleeves as one of the cheap alterations, unlike reworking the body of a gown.

Yes, and several brides pointed to the seam at the armpit or shoulder as the natural cut line. The removed lace can be reused as a cap sleeve or a reshaped neckline, but the bodice may need extra support if the illusion mesh was holding the dress up.

Because a fitted body next to a loose sleeve reads as a mistake, and the gap at the wrist draws the eye. Seamstresses can taper the sleeve or add a buttoned wrist, but if the lace or mesh has no stretch there is a hard limit before arm movement is restricted.

Home try-ons miss the shoes, the shapewear used at alterations, the veil, the hair and makeup, and they usually happen in bad light in front of a tilted mirror. One bride also pointed out that where you are in your cycle changes how the same dress sits, and that she loved hers again a week later.

the asking bride's $10,000 was the entire wedding, paid for by the couple themselves, and she said the gown plus three rounds of alterations came nowhere near it. Several readers assumed the figure was the dress alone, which she corrected three separate times.

The shop's in-house seamstress starts at $500 and the bride is getting a second quote elsewhere. One bride had her gown altered by a skilled seamstress working out of a dry cleaner for a fraction of the bridal shop quote, faster and done well.

Yes, and it is the argument several use to justify the pricier gown: hemming and bustling costs materially less than taking a bodice in, so a dress that already fits can close part of the price gap.

the bride who asked paid $2,000 for the Eddy K Casey at a US boutique in early 2026, with alterations on top.

Do not try on anything above your limit. Three brides name this as the tactic that kept them on budget, and one deliberately refused to try a gown she loved because she knew her mother would insist on buying it; she used it as a style brief and found a 100 version instead.

The reported deals are steep: 450 for a gown that retailed 1,800+, bought two months before the wedding, and one bride's boutique dream dress at less than half price. Even at half price it can still exceed a tight budget, and alterations still apply.

One bride chose the cheaper of two dresses precisely because it needed zero alterations and has no regrets. Another paid 400 for her gown and 300 for tailoring, so the tailoring nearly doubled the price of a cheap dress.

One bride's seamstress quoted 250 for making sleeves, with the bride supplying the fabric, which cost about 58 for two yards ordered from the dress designer so it would match.

Several say yes. Once you have worn the more expensive gown the cheaper ones stop measuring up, and one bride notes some boutiques deliberately pull above the budget you gave them.

Several brides describe the same squeeze: the designer's team hovering, no appointments left that weekend, and a claim the gown is unavailable until the next drop months later. Two of them regretted saying yes.

brides say a good tailor can reshape a neckline or add straps. Her salon said the opposite after the sale: the built-in cups on her size 6 will not get smaller with alterations, and the designer's offer to change the neckline was walked back.

One bride's $4,400 tag became $6,900 after a zipper modification, veil, tax and a split-sizing fee; others report tax alone turning $3,000 into $3,500, alterations of $140-$1,350, an $850 cleaning quote, and a warning that preservation is another line item.

A recommended Upper East Side cleaner quoted $850 to clean a sample-sale gown, another bride paid $1,100 combined for alterations and cleaning on a $1,000 sample, and a Kleinfeld buyer warns preservation can be another significant cost.

One mother-daughter plan capped the dress at $2,000-$2,500 with up to $1,000 or more for alterations, $3,500 all in; brides who budgeted $2,500-$8,000 commonly overshot by $1,500-$4,000, and a $6,500 dress buyer expects about $3,000 more for alterations, veil and sleeves.

Two brides reported: $530 for the gown plus $640 for alterations, and about $250 for the gown with roughly $360 spent in total once two veils and boleros were added. the bride who asked also ended up buying there and said it stayed well inside her budget.

Floor-length Azazie styles ship with extra length because the brand expects you to have them fitted, so budget for light tailoring unless you are very tall.

Spend the money on fit and on the rest of the outfit: coordinated shoes, belt, bag and jewellery plus the right shapewear and body tape read as tailored. Vintage costume jewellery from church sales and junk shops does the same job for very little.

Among these 2023-2027 brides the gown alone clustered between about 900 and 2,500, with sale, sample and secondhand finds at 220-950 and custom or designer gowns at 4,000-10,000+. Alterations typically added 300-900 and sometimes matched or exceeded the dress.

Yes. One bride paid 1,200 at a local David's Bridal to alter a 900 dress and praised the work; another paid 500 there to add sleeves, line the train, bustle and replace beads on a sample bought elsewhere. David's dresses themselves were reported at 530, 600 and 1,500.

Two brides found unworn gowns on Poshmark for 700 (about 2,000 in store) and 930 (a 3,350 Grace Loves Lace). A 200 secondhand dress that originally cost 2,800 needed 300 of cleaning and alterations, and a Canadian bride paid just under 2,000 CAD for a gown she believes retailed near 9,200 CAD. One privately bought sample had disintegrated from poor storage, so inspect before paying.

Custom ranged widely: about 1,700 with tax from a New York Etsy seamstress, roughly 4,000 for a custom gown, 4,200 for a semi-custom Rebecca Schoneveld, and 10,000+ for another custom order, while custom pieces made in Vietnam ran 350-800 before shipping and tariffs.

UK-priced answers ranged from 50 pounds on Amazon plus a 45 cape and 150 at Lulus with 150 alterations, to 200 at a sample sale (from 2,900) with 235 alterations, 800 with 100 alterations, and 950 with a friend altering it for free.

One bride whose shop charged 1,500 to alter a 1,600 dress and delivered subpar work until her seamstress aunt intervened urges everyone to shop around. Others paid 210-300 by using a neighbor, a friend, or a seamstress they befriended, versus 700-1,500 at shops.

Most gowns here landed between 1,500 and 3,500 USD before alterations, with a big cluster around 1,500-2,500; bargain finds (samples, secondhand, thrift, Amazon, Lulus) ran 70-1,000 and a smaller high tier ran 5,000-11,000.

DB gowns here cost 399-850 on sale or clearance and up to 3,500 at the top; alterations added 210-600 whether done at DB or a local seamstress, so a 400-500 DB dress typically ended near 900-1,100 total.

Yes and cheaply: Azazie gowns ran 400-585 with 195-200 alterations, Lulus 87-280, Amazon 80, Tadashi Shoji 299 with no alterations, Olivia Bottega 355 on sale, and Etsy custom gowns 395-1,018.

Rentals came in at 500-610 USD, including a custom-made rental for about 550 and two rented dresses for under 500, and rental fees included alterations.

UK examples were 280 GBP at Monsoon, 800 GBP off the shelf, 800 GBP sample plus 600 alterations (about the UK average in 2023) and 1,150 GBP for dress, veil and bag; in Europe a sample gown cost 2,500 EUR and a Vinted dress 30 EUR plus 15 EUR alterations.

Very. Multiple brides described the same pattern: said yes, cried, went home and had immediate doubts. Several reported the dress grew on them within about a month, and two called it decision anxiety rather than a real problem with the dress.

brides said a lot of the specific concerns get resolved at fittings, and that tweaks to sleeves and the skirt can move a detailed gown toward a simpler look without replacing it.

Most brides call 6,500 high: well above the US median and the discussion's sense of a normal 2,000-3,000 gown. Brides who paid 6,500-6,700 report no regrets when it did not dent their finances, while many capped themselves at 500-2,000 on principle.

Rules of thumb offered: under 10% of annual income (brides spent 1-3%), about 5% of the total wedding budget (2,000 on a 40,000 wedding), under 1% of net worth, or one paycheck's take-home including alterations.

A Porto bride paid 2,050 euros including alterations in 2024 and expects 1,000-3,000 euros nationally, pricier around Lisbon and the south; 6,500 euros is about four months of median salary there. Elsewhere: custom 400 euros, secondhand 800 euros plus 150 alterations, Croatian rental 1,500 euros (1,000-1,200 is typical).

Yes. brides describe adding a crinoline for volume, folds or pick-ups in the skirt, a royal bustle, or a detachable satin overskirt. A satin overlay costs more than the other options but still far less than buying a second gown.

brides who went custom said the middle of the build is the frightening part and the result was worth it. They also pushed back on romanticising salon shopping: brides leave stores in tears, over-shop, hit decision fatigue and replace the dress they picked.

One bride did three or four in-person fittings and named that as the reason hers turned out perfectly. the bride who asked is approving everything by photo from another country with a single fitting booked before the wedding.

Possible but awkward. Fittings are the constraint: one bride had weekly fittings for two months and several a week at the end. Some London labels are stocked in the US, and one bride estimated roughly two trips to London for The Own Studio.

Much cheaper. A London bride paid 3,000 pounds all in for a 100 percent silk dress after being quoted 10,000 pounds by studios, and a Detroit bride paid 3,800 for a custom gown at a local boutique.

Plan on roughly six to twelve months. One bride ordered a Wed Studio gown on a twelve-month timeline and it landed with about three months to spare for alterations; the 20,000 custom order was quoted six months from measurements.

these accounts were near-unanimous yes, especially once alterations approach the dress price. the bride who asked paid $1,000, was quoted $1,200-1,400 to fix it, and instead bought a cheaper second gown needing only a bustle and a back tightening.

Go back out alone or with one or two people who will not push, and do not announce it. the bride who asked returned with only her mother and future sisters-in-law and found a gown she loves; several brides said the same fix worked for them years earlier.

Only by cutting into the bodice, which means rebuilding the structure and rehemming the cut edges, and it usually looks forced. brides told the bride who asked the mocked-up pinned V exposed more than it flattered and that the gown was never designed for it.

A V-neck can usually be cut into a straight neckline and the straps can be dropped to lengthen the line, but the discussion stressed using a genuinely good seamstress for that kind of change.

That is the window to act: one bride pointed out she could still return or resell the gown because no alterations had been done, and another said to go back alone and retry the dresses she preferred.

these accounts said yes almost unanimously about her puffy butterfly sleeves; opinion split only on whether to remove them entirely or wear the fabric off the shoulder instead.

Brides here mostly paid 1,100-2,500 AUD for the gown, with bargains at 100-800 (Salvos, eBay, sale racks) and only custom or high-end pieces reaching 3,500-10,000. Add roughly 300-1,200 for alterations unless the dress fits off the rack.

Recommended: Luv Bridal (Madi Lane around 2k, Moonee Ponds store), Embrace Bridal in Geelong (1,600 purchase, styles under 2k), Pearls & Roses in Geelong (2-3k, owner does alterations), Ivory discussion on Chapel Street (2,500), Bluebell Bridal, Fairytales Bridal, madeinbridal (tailor-made up to 2,500) and Lucy Laurita made-to-measure; a Croydon shop was running 50% off clearance.

No; most Australian stores carry up to about size 20 before plus-size ranges apply. A size 14-16 bride had plenty to try at Embrace Bridal, samples that would not zip were still workable at Pearls & Roses, and a size 16 sample was taken in to fit a 12/14.

A custom-sized new gown with a rush fee cost 3,500, one sister's fully custom dress ran 10k, while Melbourne makers Lucy Laurita (about 700-1,000-plus depending on fabric) and madeinbridal (tailor-made up to about 2,500) sit far lower.

Also split: one bride says the quality is cheap and to skip it, another says she loves every purchase she has made from them and that the dress in question was a knockoff of the original.

Figures here run from about $400-$500 for straps and general fit, up to $1,500 on an $800 sample gown and $900 on a $450 closeout gown; a $60 marketplace dress needed roughly $500 for sleeves, letting out and steaming.

Named routes: consignment (a roughly $2,600 gown for $1,300), a bridal shop closing out stock (a $2,000 gown for $450), Azazie around $300, Lulus at $125, Facebook Marketplace at $60 plus tailoring, designer sample sales, StillWhite and department stores.

Yes, before alterations start, is the discussion's answer: the more work a gown needs, the worse the value of keeping one you already doubt, and doubts about the fabric will not go away after tailoring.

Yes, if you accept off-the-rack or secondhand. Advice was to book the alterations appointment now and reserve a slot about a month out, look at StillWhite for a resale gown, and note one bride's Anthropologie dress that arrived in roughly one month.

This bride hiked a little over a mile up Cathedral Rock in Sedona in her gown. She tied the skirt up to her knees, wore biker shorts underneath and kept her hiking shoes on the whole day; the hem picked up red dirt but it does not show in the photos.

The opposite here. Other hikers cheered and congratulated them, which several nervous brides planning the same elopement found reassuring.

Yes, and these accounts treat both as low-risk. Lining the bodice plus sewing the V up into a sweetheart neckline is the change nearly everyone endorses, well short of repositioning lace.

Moving or thinning dense lace is where people get nervous. Repeated advice is to stop at lining and closing the neckline rather than restitching the lace, because heavy alteration can undo the design.

Yes. brides say to ask the shop or your alterations specialist to order a matching lace panel with the gown; roughly a yard is enough for cap sleeves or a bolero.

Yes. The suggested method is having the seamstress pin or hold a panel of fabric behind the plunge first so you can see the effect before anything is cut or stitched.

Often yes, informally. A former salon employee says her shop had a no-return policy but still did exchanges for unhappy brides, and the odds are best in the first weeks, before the order is placed with the designer and before any alterations are cut.

Yes, and this is the most repeated fix here. Suggested changes include buttons down the back, a crinoline or extra slip for volume, lace cut from removed sleeves used to fill a deep plunge, a rouched overlay, cap sleeves, a lace overskirt and appliques. brides stress using a seamstress who specialises in bridal.

The strong advice here is no. People mirror the tone you show them, so a doubtful bride gets lukewarm reactions that feed the doubt. Several suggest hiding the photos entirely until the fitting is done.

Several said yes even if you will not buy there, because it teaches you which shapes and fabrics suit you and consultants often know seamstresses. They also pointed out that current bridal styles - basque waists, floral and leaf appliqué, illusion bodices - already lean the way you want.

Real spends reported here run far under a 2000 budget: 50 for a fast-fashion dress, 80 secondhand plus 120 in alterations, about 300 for two dresses, and about 300 for a custom-made Etsy gown. One boutique known for whimsical bridal styles was described as mostly 2000 or under.

Nobody here has actually ordered from them. The bride who suggested it had only browsed and points to the returns policy; another suggests checking the Better Business Bureau before ordering.

Lulus, ASOS, Meshki, Club L London, Odd Muse, Shopbop and the formalwear racks at Macy's, Nordstrom and Saks all came up, plus David's Bridal's Little White Dress section. One bride wore a $170 non-bridal summer dress with $30-40 of alterations.

One bride did: a vintage-style white dress with a rose print, about $170, $30-40 in alterations, and accessories that made it feel bridal. brides suggest going non-white if you plan a traditional gown for the later celebration.

the discussion's main answer is not to hunt for a dupe at all: buy a plain gown with the right silhouette that you already love on your body and have a bridal seamstress add the appliqués and detail you wanted.

Yes, and brides say it usually costs less than building a dress from scratch and carries less risk. Use a bridal seamstress specifically; bridal shops often have ones they work with.

Two routes: ask the designer's customer service or a shop that carries them whether the embellishments can be bought, and source stiff 3D silk organza flowers on Etsy by the pack.

One bride said basic alterations at her bridal seamstress start around $650, which is why the bride who asked concluded a $6,500 made-to-measure gown that includes alterations was competitive.

A custom Leah da Gloria was put at about $15,000, another designer quoted $6,500 including made-to-measure and alterations, and Eve of Milady sits around $4,000 and up.

Two Leah da Gloria gowns were listed on StillWhite, but a bride warns that once hemming and customisation are added the saving over a made-to-measure quote can disappear.

Minor neckline work is possible, but brides split on it: some said the pointed sweetheart can be softened in alterations, others warned that reshaping it would ruin the draping that makes the dress.

Four figures come up here alone: $1,200 for a hem and a small waist take-in, $1,400 on a $900 sample gown, a $700 salon quote one bride walked away from, and $120 at an independent seamstress for bodice, shoulders, waist ribbon and hem.

One bride refused a $700 in-house bill and paid $120 elsewhere for more work. Her filter: an independent seamstress with at least 100 Google reviews, a 4.7-plus rating and a couple of wedding gown photos in those reviews.

Yes, and the discussion flags it as the catch with resale: alterations are cut to the previous bride's body, so the listed size can be misleading and you have to check exactly what was done before buying.

Easily, on this evidence: ASOS $200-350, The Iconic about $400, JJ's House $400 plus $100 alterations, White Runway $400 for a new Bariano, StillWhite $500, Facebook Marketplace $450, eBay $80 to just under $1,000, and an Anna Campbell archive gown at $990.

About $100 on a $400 JJ's House dress. One ASOS bride's dress plus tailoring still came in under $600, and a petite bride only needed the front shortened on a Meshki dress.

Selection is thin at both ends of the range. A US size 4 bride and a UK 4-6 bride both found little for them, while another bride was delighted to find a gown she wanted available in plus size.

Only for plain polyester: two brides washed beaded polyester gowns on a short delicate cycle or in a bathtub with baby shampoo or Woolite and air-dried them, but silk, coated beads and structured interfacing can be ruined by water, so most answers say not to risk a dress you must wear soon.

the asking bride's $1,400 sample (originally close to $7k retail) needed $500 cleaning and $475 alterations, about $2,375 all in, which she still considers a steal; the lesson is to price cleaning and alterations before buying a heavily tried-on sample.

brides doubt a $1,400 sample with cleaning and alterations sunk into it will resell anywhere near that, though one suggests a freshly cleaned dress might fetch more than the purchase price and another points to consignment shops that buy altered gowns.

Yes: one bride's $2,500 gown came to $2,900 after taxes, a service fee and tariffs, roughly 16% over the tag, before $1,200 of alterations.

Technically yes, but it is reconstruction, not a fitting tweak: the zipper is opened from the hem to above the new waistline, the skirt is detached, re-gathered smaller and reattached higher, and the hem has to be long enough to survive being lifted. brides warned it is slow and expensive and told her to get a written quote before committing.

Nobody here had actually paid for it. The one number offered was an estimate of $1,000 or more in alterations, and several brides with sewing experience called it labour-intensive and pricey without naming a figure.

It can. Petticoats tie at the natural waist, so the gathered drawstring sits right where a dropped waist is snug and can bulge. The fixes given were to have a seamstress remove the drawstring, flatten and take in the excess at the side seams and add flat elastic, or use a stretchy zip-top slip that sits up under the bust.

Opinion split. Most said the dress was right and the pressure was the only real problem, so she should stop looking. A sizeable minority said to check the shop's return or exchange terms, go back alone and video-call her mother from the fitting room rather than settle on a gown she will not feel good in.

Budget for it. One bride warns brides to factor alterations in before comparing a resale gown to a new one, and a vintage Etsy buyer paid 120 to hem hers after paying 89 for the dress.

Most answers cluster between 1,500 and 3,000 CAD for the gown before alterations, with a thick budget tier at 15-900 from thrift, clearance, Marketplace and David's Bridal, and a top tier at 4,500-15,000 at Toronto boutiques (plus one 45,000 USD custom gown the bride's parents paid for).

Yes for sample-size brides: 860 taxes in for a 2,100 gown, 1,900 with tax for a designer sample, 2,000 for a 6,500 gown at the old Kleinfeld sample sale, 300 at 90% off, and 499 for a 5,000 gown at a closing shop. The catches were 500-700 in alterations on oversized samples and 300 to dry-clean a floor sample.

Reported David's Bridal prices were 100 on clearance, 220 on sale with no alterations needed, 270, about 600 twice (one with 200 alterations) and 1,800 for a gown needing only a bustle.

Azazie buys came in at 350-400 custom-sized on Cyber Monday plus 100 for a bustle and straps, 500 plus a 70 veil-and-glove set and 70 for a corset back, 800, and about 150 for a reception gown; one bride used Azazie's rental try-on first. A gifted Azazie dress listed at 600 needed 100 in tailoring.

Sometimes: a 1,500 gown made to the bride's measurements with her customizations needed nothing, and a 1,500 house-brand gown included a custom front length and alterations. But a 2,000 made-to-order gown still needed 950 plus tax in alterations, so do not count on skipping them.

Top-tier reports: 15,000 before tax at a major Toronto boutique, 9,500 after tax with free alterations negotiated, 10,000 plus a 3,000 second look, 7,000 plus 1,500 alterations, 5,100-5,500, and 5,000 for a silk Katherine Tash; one boutique's range was quoted as 1,000 to 20,000-plus.

Yes: a red evening dress cost 175 where a white 'wedding' version would run 1,000-plus, an ASOS bridal sale dress 180 plus 30 alterations, a Shein jumpsuit 25, a white bridesmaid dress about 120, and a bride advises telling shops the dress is for a gala rather than a wedding.

brides suspect salons recover margin on alterations when the gown itself sold cheap off the rack, and one questions what work could justify $900 on this dress. The fix everyone gives is to get several outside quotes.

the asking bride's gown needs to come down several sizes including the bust cups, which is normal for off-the-rack stock, and she is having it done by a seamstress her mother knows rather than the salon.

Off-the-rack pieces that already fit are packed and handed over the same visit. One bride was quoted about a month for a made-to-measure order, and a Shanghai tailor turned around a raw silk evening gown in 24 hours.

Only if you can recover the money on the first or comfortably afford both. The runner-up here would cost another $2,800 plus alterations. The cheaper alternative suggested is wearing that style to the rehearsal dinner instead.

brides say mixed laces read as intentional, especially when the veil's lace edge echoes a shape in the gown. The alternatives given are a plain cathedral veil so the lace gown leads, or buying yardage of the dress lace and having a seamstress make a matching veil.

Mostly yes here. Brides who spent $2,500 to $3,100 report no regret, usually because of how they feel in the photographs. The dissenters are the ones who did not choose the price themselves, or who spent $5,000 and now store it unused. Two brides who spent $400 and $500 are equally happy.

One bride resold hers for about 40 percent of what was paid, but after the alterations and cleaning she had put in, the real recovery was nearer 25 percent.

One bride bought a $4,000 gown from another bride for $1,000; the seller had become pregnant and had only hemmed and taken it in, so the existing alterations were not a problem. She says she would never have paid full price for it.

Two routes came up: Vietnam, where a bride is having hers made and names Nicole Bridal, Olivia Ng and White Peony as well regarded, and Colombia. The suggested method is measurements and fabric choice remotely, then either flying out for final fittings or ordering to measurement and using a local tailor.

It can work: this bride's 250 dollar online gown fits her well and the discussion calls it a lucky result. The trade-off named repeatedly is finishing work, since an online dress arrives creased, unhemmed and unlined, and one bride warns the visible seam allowances through the skirt are what makes an online gown read cheaply made.

Four things come up again and again: steam or press it including the seams, hem it while wearing the shoes you will actually wear, add high-waisted smoothing shapewear or a corset, and add a crinoline or underskirt if the skirt is thin enough to show your skin tone.

Change the accessories before you change the gown. here the entire fix was removing the gloves, swapping a heavy lace veil for a plain one, putting the hair up, correcting posture, and finishing the hem and steaming, with no new dress needed.

the discussion's answer was to change everything around the dress rather than the dress itself: veil, headpiece, shoes, jewellery, hair, makeup and bouquet. Several warned that once a seamstress makes the first cut you cannot undo it.

Yes, within limits. Suggestions included adding a front slit, removing the placket under the corset lacing, thinning the floral applique on the bust, cleaning up the pointed waist and reshaping under the arms. But cutting is irreversible, so several brides urged against it.

Sizing up adds width everywhere, so the bodice gapes at the bust and armholes while the bump still pulls the skirt tight, which also makes the hem sit shorter. It is doable if you pick a cut with give rather than a fitted one: this bride ended up in a size 10 lace mermaid gown from Azazie that was not maternity and fitted well at 36 weeks.

Several brides said the wedding markup is real and suggested describing it as a party dress, a confirmation outfit or a maternity photo shoot instead. Others cautioned that the trick does not always work and that a non-bridal tailor is the cheaper route anyway.

Routes named by people who had actually used them: Azazie (fast shipping, custom measurements, roughly 15 dollars for the home try-on), Lulus, Baltic Born, Club L London (120 euro maternity gown), Tiffany Rose Maternity, and Amazon, where one bride got a soft simple gown for 40 dollars including rush delivery.

Opinion split. Several said yes because the photographs last a lifetime, and one bride's alterations came to almost as much as her dress. Others found online-dress alterations surprisingly cheap and stressed getting a quote before writing the dress off.

brides suggested redirecting the offer to shoes, the veil, or the alterations bill, so the gift still lands without a fight over the gown price.

The comfort worry raised here is spending the day tugging the bodice up while dancing. The fix brides give is having quality cup supports sewn in during alterations rather than switching to straps.

Not always: the asking bride's sale advertised 500 but had nothing under 1,500 and some samples priced above regular stock. Others did score 500 samples, 800 for a 2,400 gown and a 200 sample, but that 200 sample then drew quotes of 200-500 for dry cleaning and 400-900 for repairs and tailoring; arriving late may mean the cheap ones are gone.

Seamstresses routinely add straps or sleeves (off-shoulder is easiest), shops keep detachable sleeve samples, one bride had half her train cut off and turned into matching sleeves, and another's 2,000 gown had straps added. Built-in boning is why traditional gowns cost more but lets you skip a bra.

Poshmark (550, 400 already altered, 260, 60), StillWhite (475 after negotiating with videos, 670), Depop (75), Mercari (140), ThredUp (200 with alterations), eBay, Facebook Marketplace (250 new with tags, 50, and one free gown); message sellers for measurements and close-up photos before paying.

500 for a custom 1950s-style dress from an Etsy seamstress, 500 plus 300 alterations for an Etsy gown, 1,050 and 1,300 for custom gowns (the 1,300 one resold for 1,000), 400 for two custom dresses made in Vietnam, and 100 from Taobao plus 360 alterations.

Mixed: a bride who went from a 1,000 plan to just under 3,000 has no regret after trying 40-50 gowns, and another is happy at 1,400 after 70-80 tries; but a 1,200 plus 600 alterations bride regrets it, and one who spent 1,200 of a 2,500 budget is glad she spent less after wearing it two hours.

Yes: Brides for a Cause in Seattle sold a donated, nearly new gown for 500, a nonprofit sample store sold one for 300 with a staff discount, a UK bridal charity shop for 300 pounds, a Goodwill bridal event for 25, and shopgoodwill.com for under 300; budget 300-450 for alterations on top.

The tiebreaker the discussion keeps landing on is fit as it stands: the gown that already fits wins, because the other needs bust tailoring and a petticoat before it looks the same.

Yes, and on a 2k budget it is the deciding factor here: one bride says outright to pick the one needing less altering if you genuinely love both.

Yes, and that removed the main reason to buy the pricier gown. brides said straps can be swapped or beaded during alterations, detachable off-the-shoulder sleeves are sold on Etsy, and a lighter chiffon version would look better than the heavy drooping ones.

Many said yes, calling them messy, uncomfortable-looking and a trend that will read badly in photos, with several noting the arms disappear into the droop. A minority defended them as the best part of the dress and said the fit could simply be taken in at the shoulder.

Yes, and the reminder came up unprompted. Even the cheaper option here was assessed as needing steaming and taking in through the bust, so the money left after the dress determines how much of that is affordable.

Yes, and state a total budget rather than a dress budget, since alterations are hard to predict until they see how it fits. Ask for the exact number rather than accepting a bit over budget, which shops define very differently from brides.

brides call it a straightforward alteration - if the beadwork is what she loves on the pricier gown, it can be added to the cheaper one rather than paying for the whole dress.

Jenny Yoo (many under 2,000; a sample-sale gown was 600), Maggie Sottero, Lotus Bridal, Max Bridal, Designer Loft, Adrianne's, The White Gown (1,800 paid), Always a Bridesmaid on Staten Island (1,000), Best Total Wedding Plaza in Bayside (1,600 with alterations) and Kleinfeld sample sales.

Yes, one bride notes there is no sales tax on dresses bought in NJ and recommends Seng Couture, which includes alterations; Jaehee Bridal in Englewood is about a 30-minute bus from Port Authority.

A 600 Jenny Yoo sample ended with tailoring that cost more than the gown; shops that bundle alterations (Best Total Wedding Plaza, Seng Couture, Adrianne's) avoid that surprise, one bride paying 1,600 all-in.

Take out layers of crinoline or tulle, or remove the boning in the skirt so it falls softly instead of standing away. Hem the gown first, then judge the volume, because an unhemmed skirt pushes out at the top and reads fuller than it will.

Salon photos are usually of an untailored sample in overhead light against a beige wall, with no hair or makeup. Brides here went back purely to retake photos and felt completely different about the dress afterwards.

Before the gown arrives, and in person with photos rather than over the phone. the bride who asked was told flatly by phone that the poof could not be changed, and the discussion advised going in or finding a different tailor.

Yes. One suggestion was to angle the bones toward the centre front to sharpen the waist, as an easier first step than shortening the bodice, along with a small push-up pad in the cup for waist emphasis.

Suggested as the safer use of the money: major alterations are expensive and risky, and the bride who asked ended up planning a second look to settle her nerves rather than rebuilding the first gown.

Yes, every reply says so: brides here paid 400-1,300 for the gown, one landed within 50 of the same 1,500 budget, and the US average is cited as 2,100.

Nearly 500 on a 400 David's Bridal dress, 500 for minor work on a 1,300 Reformation dress, and more than the dress on a sub-500 charity-shop gown; intensive alterations can hit 1,000, so buy a dress that already fits well.

One NYC archivist (J. Scheer, designer-recommended) cleaned the silk gown, corrected slight discolorations and boxed it without chemical preservation treatments, for $1,800 including veil and two accessories.

Mixed but mostly positive from people who own several: one calls every Lulus dress she owns well made and only needing minor tailoring, another was not thrilled by the quality of dresses ordered for a guest, and the bride who asked says hers feels nice but slightly shiny.

Several brides flag that the skirt is translucent in bright light and that the seams show; the fix they suggest is a slip, petticoat or a lining sewn in by a seamstress, which is a small alteration rather than a rebuild.

The tactic several used is to order multiple styles and two sizes of the favourites, try them at home and return the rest; one bride bought a rack from a discount store to hang them on. the bride who asked wore a small in a style with a zip and tie that allows some room.

For in-demand labels, yes. One bride had been watching the site for this designer, whose gowns retail around $12,000 to $20,000, and saw current-collection dresses in her size sell fast at upwards of $5,000. The listing lets you post your own measurements, which softens the alterations problem.

They narrow the buyer pool rather than kill the price. A heavily reshaped gown is hard to match to a stranger's measurements, while the brides's dress had only a bustle added and the chest taken in slightly, which she treats as close to original. Listing exact measurements lets a buyer judge whether her own tailor can finish the job.

Yes, and quite drastically. One bride's alterations shop added off-shoulder sleeves and a full bridal cape to a sleeveless gown from reference photos; another is having the bodice front panel rebuilt with princess seams. Bodice reshaping and sweetheart necklines were also suggested.

Overwhelmingly keep and alter. At 12.50 even a 300-600 tailoring bill leaves you far below a salon gown, and resale is weak: the previous owner of the same style got 350 for a dress that retailed near 800.

A bridal alterations seamstress in a low-cost area prices an illusion-netting neckline conversion at 300-400 and says a bigger city would run higher. Another bride caps it at 500-600, arguing that past 800 you should buy a custom dress online instead.

Not cheaply. Alterations specialists here say a true strapless conversion needs new internal construction, costs hundreds and is fiddly after the fact; swapping the satin collar for illusion netting or a halter strap is the cheaper route.

Yes - you pay for alterations on a new gown too, so the gown price is the only real saving. here a full bridal outfit of budget separates plus a friend's lace work came in under 250, against multi-thousand salon totals.

Get an estimate first: brides and two working seamstresses draw the line between hemming and taking in a bodice, which is routine, and structural changes to necklines or support, which are priced far higher and can exceed a new dress.

No. Brides advise adding at least 1,000 USD for alterations plus sales tax on top of the ticket price, and asking the boutique for the base price before any customisation.

these accounts said let it out only a little. The tailor offered one inch and warned more would stop it staying up; brides suggested half an inch, or trying the inch as a trial, and one bride who ignored her seamstress and let hers out was glad she did.

Ask the alterations shop for a waist stay, which carries the weight of the skirt so the bodice does not slide down. Other fixes named were adding thin straps, dancer's or body glue, and double-sided tape.

Yes, and several brides had it done specifically so the bodice could be loosened without falling. Variants described were thin straps, off-the-shoulder straps starting at the cup corners, side-swoop sleeves anchored at the back, and a lace bolero made from matching fabric.

brides treat it as a standard alteration and recommend it for anyone whose size fluctuates: it lets the waist stay tight while the top is adjustable on the day. One bride's daughter had it added after weight loss and one bride is doing it now because she bloats.

Yes. brides warned there is a ripple effect: taking the bodice out at the back makes the front less tailored, so the trade-off is a smoother back against a looser front and more tugging all evening.

One bride returned hers and found a dress she loved more. Another said David's Bridal reportedly lets you swap for a different dress of equal price if you buy alterations there and their team cannot do the change you want, such as a leg slit.

Yes, and several people flagged it as the only weak point in the fit. The suggestions were to have a seamstress convert the drooping off-the-shoulder pieces into proper straps, or at least lift and tighten them so they sit just above the bodice line.

Cheap Etsy copies of couture looks are called scams; legitimate Etsy makers charge roughly boutique prices, require self-measuring, allow no returns on made-to-order gowns, and local alterations cost extra.

One bride suggests it since veils need no fittings or corsetry, but warns to expect a veil to cost 2 to 3 times what you think.

Almost everyone says take them off. Suggested reuses: work the rose motifs into a veil or headpiece, make a flower girl headband, clip flowers into the bustle, add them to the bouquet, use them for a vintage-style photo set, or keep them in a shadow box.

Usually yes. brides point to the wide hem allowance on this gown, which a seamstress can let down, and suggest adding a decorative lace underlayer as an alternative way to gain length.

Flats, a ballet slipper or a kitten heel. Several brides say the length reads correctly barefoot and would still work with a low heel, and that a floor-dragging hem makes walking harder anyway.

Yes, and it is the most repeated suggestion here. Several add that swapping them for spaghetti straps holds the bodice up better and lengthens the torso, and that a scarf then gives the look she originally wanted.

Concrete figures here: $150 quoted for a bust adjustment on an Azazie gown and $150 spent on an Etsy dress. Some brides paid nothing - a made-to-measure custom dress and a well-fitting eBay dress needed no work at all.

Two brides did: a Toronto maker charged just over $1,000 custom to measure with no alterations needed, and an Etsy seller made a dress and veil for under $800. It can beat paying for a cheap dress plus heavy alterations.

Around 500 is the number repeated, roughly half the price of a cheap dress. Real figures here were 250 on a 630 gown and a few hundred on a 40 pound eBay dress. Heavier beading and layers cost more, and a gown already altered for someone else can limit what a seamstress can do.

Not always. the bride who asked priced a rental at about 600 including minor alterations and cleaning, more than she wanted for something she does not keep. A US site was named with rental gowns from 48 and plenty between 100 and 200, and in some countries renting is the default.

For the dress itself yes, several bought at 150 to 240, but not once alterations are counted. Buying at 500 in your own size usually beats 200 plus a rebuild, and the discussion pushed the bride who asked toward gowns that need almost nothing done.

the discussion's consistent advice was to keep the first dress until the replacement comes back from the tailor and you have seen it finished, because a heavily altered gown may not turn out as imagined. Several suggested wearing one for the ceremony and the other for the reception rather than choosing.

the bride who asked was quoted 250-450 USD to take a thrifted gown in three sizes at the waist, and brides called that reasonable. For comparison, one bride in Europe paid 90 EUR to have a gown already in her size taken in at the sleeves and waist and hemmed.

Yes for the waist and body, but brides warned that taking a gown in does not remove volume: if the skirt or sleeves overwhelm your frame, they will still overwhelm it after alterations unless the tailor rebuilds the shape. Get the tailor's opinion before selling your backup.

brides said yes if you accept condition risk and alteration cost. the bride who asked paid 198 USD for her dream vintage gown in a thrift shop, another bride accumulated five vintage gowns at roughly 30-80 USD each, and a third said 1980s-style gowns turn up on Goodwill's online auctions for around 20 USD.

Several brides recommended exactly that instead of selling one, and one pointed out you can also use the spare for a photoshoot or a future pregnancy shoot. The counter-argument raised here is that selling the unworn gown recoups money for alterations.

Yes, and the bride who asked already had four or five people asking to buy hers. brides advised selling only after the wedding, so the first gown stays available as a backup, and noted a worn dress still resells.

the asking bride's first gown came from Xtabay Vintage in Portland, Oregon, and arrived in perfect condition and fitting her without work. Her second came from an unnamed thrift store for 198 USD but needs three sizes taken in.

Suggested here: if the sleeved dress cannot be returned, take the lace sleeves off it and wear them with the strapless gown, or add long lace gloves or detachable sleeves for the same effect.

brides told her to budget alterations even on a $150 dress so it fits properly, and to steam the creased one before judging it.

Sample-sale buys included 300 and 1500 (originally 4k) at Kleinfeld, 200 for an 1800 dress years ago, 2500 for a 10k gown, 1650 at Mark Ingram at 75 percent off, 1400 for a 4.5k White Oak Bridal dress and 700 for a 3600 Jenny Yoo; budget 500-1500 extra for the alterations samples usually need.

Veils cost 30 from Amazon (preferred over a 400 custom one), 120 secondhand, 300 custom from a tailor, 500 at BHLDN, 1000 and 1500 from designers; several brides borrowed a friend's or mother's veil or sewed their own for free.

Reported: Danielle Frankel 14k with alterations, Galia Lahav 10-13k, Mira Zwillinger 13-14k, Sareh Nouri 10k, Kleinfeld purchases 5-8k, Kyha 6.5k, Wiederhoeft about 5k, Studio Dorothy 3800, Lovely Bride 3500, Jenny Yoo 2-3.1k and a Markarian trunk-sale dress 2500 in 2019.

Yes: tea length reportedly drops prices to 300-400, an Amsale tea-length dress was 350 and a Jenny Yoo short lace dress about 300; alterations on them were 150 or zero.

the bride who asked began roughly a year out for a July 2027 elopement, and a bride backed that: order well before you need it to absorb shipping delays and alterations, especially from small or overseas makers.

Her build was a mesh corset base, metallic crinkle chiffon draped over it, then strips of hand-dyed tulle stitched down with clear fishing-line discussion. The strips were joined with invisible thread and anchored to the underskirt at the hem to keep the panels evenly spaced.

Anchoring every tulle panel to the underskirt hem lets the whole skirt be picked up as one unit, which is why she built it that way for an adventure wedding on Icelandic terrain.

No. Multiple brides bought at their first appointment after four to ten dresses and stayed happy, including one who married last October and one who did not even cry at the fitting but fell in love later. A bridal shop employee said finding it at the first store is normal and fine.

Yes, and it was the single most agreed-with piece of advice here: have the alterationist line the sheer bodice as part of alterations. One bride ordered the same gown from the manufacturer with a lined bodice; another owner of the same dress is deliberately keeping hers unlined. A shop worker suggested asking the salon to pin fabric behind the sample so you can see the effect before committing.

Around three to four months before. A bride told the bride who asked, whose wedding is next July, that alterations would not begin until roughly March, so there is no pressure to resolve the doubt now.

This gown has six layers in the train and is double lined, and the bride sweated through her fitting in an 80-degree alterations room. the discussion's verdict is that it works for an air-conditioned indoor ceremony but needs a change of dress for the reception.

brides say a seamstress can pull lining or train layers, make the sleeves detachable, cut them down to cap sleeves, or make the train detachable. Swapping a heavy patterned veil for a plain one is the easiest heat saving.

The bride wanted her mother's gown but it is an inch too short. brides suggest asking a seamstress about adding length or an under layer, though nobody here has priced that work.

This bride paid £583.19 (about $778 USD) to VeigoAtelier and got layered tulle, a train, a corset back and a bustle she did not know was included; brides guessed it was a $10k gown. Others bought Etsy dresses last year and three years ago and were happy too.

Often yes - one bride paid extra for alterations on hers. This the bride who asked avoided them by having the seller tailor the length, but she did not order custom sizing.

This bride bought hers at a Jenny Yoo sample sale, had it tailored, and two weeks after the wedding said she could not be happier with how it photographed.

Tailored by Ornela was named independently by two brides here, both of whom had Jenny Yoo gowns altered there and rated the work highly.

Quality gets consistent praise: JessaKae owners describe embroidered detail, layered skirts and fabric that feels better than pricier dresses, and Baltic Born buyers like the dresses themselves. The problem with both is returns, which are final sale or store credit.

One bride suggested having the cheaper bodice tailored to the pointed neckline of the pricier gown, and another noted that proper alterations would make the first dress fit better than the second does off the rack.

Buy where real customers have wrote photos: shops with long review histories such as Vicky Mermaid Bridal, a local seamstress you can meet, or secondhand sites that take returns. One bride ordered fifteen dresses from TheRealReal at $15 per return so she could judge them in person.

Mac Duggal on sale at $200 and secondhand on Poshmark, BHLDN sales at $400, Nicole and Felicia evening gowns around $1,000, Etsy made-to-measure around $400, and secondhand luxury sites where you can order several and return them.